Car buying help?

"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben) 12/02/2015 at 09:25 • Filed to: None

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With the caddy for sale and me getting a few offers before I can even find a car, I need to have some plan quickly. I found an ‘84 Benz 300D that is apparently a euro model with 220k on the clock for $1800. Seems to be in good shape from the pics, but I know nothing about these old benzes and even less about diesels. PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY OWNED THESE: What should I look out for? What are running costs like? Where can I get it worked on? Are oil changes on these like oil changes on regular cars?

Car in question.

DISCLAIMER: I’m also looking at 2 Eldorados, so don’t worry, I might not get a Benz.

CalzoneGolem > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:28

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*license plating intensifies*

Aaron Brown > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:30

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Price range? Any wants or desires?

petebmwm > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:30

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I respect a man that only drives gold cars. It signifies pimp hand strength!!!

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:36

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I bought one when I was in hs. I got rid of after I bought it. It had massive blowby, the worst rust you can imagine. I had no floor just carpet. Theses w123s will rust out, check under the spare tire wheel, fenders, rocker panels etc. Any shop can service them but leave it to those specialty benz shops to do engine work. Oil changes use cartridge filters and 15w40 oil. Make sure it doesn’t run like shit or your dumping in more money. You're better off in an Eldorado.

Your boy, BJR > Aaron Brown 12/02/2015 at 09:43

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Big, reliable or a cadillac, not a panther, $4000 or under

Coupe or Sedan.

Your boy, BJR > petebmwm 12/02/2015 at 09:44

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Well, one of the eldos I’m looking at is purpleish.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:47

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To quote Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday, I’m your huckleberry. As is Agrajag, and I assume he’ll weigh in. The guy who owns this car is probably meticulous. Why? Because either he stays really plugged in on Benz stuff or knows someone who does, because that’s the only way he’d know to apply for the high miles award he has on the front. However - new glow plugs + cap and rotor and wires? WAT. Not sure if serious... It may be his mechanic who is the meticulous one, but That’s Fine Too. Further:

No cracks in the MB-TEX seats (good)

Simple version A/C system (great)

300D (non-turbo not so good in some respects, good in others)

Replaced dash cap (old one presumably cracked, not a problem *if* he got it all back together right)

Repaint - needs to be looked at very carefully, but isn’t uncommon on these

In general, these are great cars, but the non-turbo 300 is going to be a little pokey, if not as bad as the 240. The Euro bumpers look great. Parts are readily available for pretty much everything on this, and while not as cheap as US stuff of that age (usually), it’s not that spendy. Mileage is perfectly reasonable, and price seems pretty good. One caution, and that is that they’re really nose heavy with no ABS, so keep them tires fresh.

Things to look out for: funky tire wear that might indicate needing front end work, front oil seal leaks, injector tapping (not dangerous, but can mean needing new injectors to not be annoyed), trans fluid smell, motor mounts, rust in the rear quarters, and whether the front clip shows any signs of being in an accident. Also, vacuum leaks - the indication should be how fast it turns off and how fast the doors unlock after sitting. If slow - vacuum leaks, usually. Occasionally the vacuum pump on these will grenade the engine, but you’re likely another 150+ thousand from even any risk of that. Ask, however, how recently the timing chain has been done. Not a hard job if you know what you’re doing and have the tools, but a change about every 125-150,000 is not out of line.

bob and john > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:50

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oil changes are like normal cars yes. but you do need a different weight of oil

I do remember tht old merc diesels were some of the longest lasting engines you could get. but there was ONE variant of the motor that was a complete and utter shit pile (they tried to bore out the existing block, but this left the cylinder walls very thin and prone to breaking) I think it was the 3.5L

if its the 3.0L, you should be smooth sailing from now until the end of time.

Your boy, BJR > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 09:52

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To quote Val Kilmer in Batman Forever, do you like the circuth?

In all seriousness, thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.

Nibby > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:53

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W126

petebmwm > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:53

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mmmmmmm, what interior?

Your boy, BJR > petebmwm 12/02/2015 at 09:54

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Black

Your boy, BJR > petebmwm 12/02/2015 at 09:55

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Agrajag > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:55

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Selling the Caddy?!?!

Just know that these are among the slowest vehicles developed by man. If that doesn’t bother you then I definitely recommend one.

I made this guide for the w123 body . That should give you a good idea of what to look for. Parts are surprisingly cheap for these cars. Downside is you are unlikely to find parts locally and have to order everything. These are also incredibly easy to work on and the internet has diy’s on these for just about everything. I’m by no means a mechanic and have learned a shit load from mine. Oil changes are a snap .

Maybe next year I’ll bring my 240D to the meet.

petebmwm > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 09:56

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shit, if it were white i’d say go for it!!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:00

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Definitely don’t neglect the rust checks, though. They’ve got a thick layer of mastic underneath, so floorboard rust from the outside isn’t *that* common, but if you get it, it’s bad. Agrajag’s rusted a hole that he fixed with mixed success, and one of the ones in my family (a ‘79) has a hole straight through the passenger side rear. Then there’s the rear quarter rust to watch for, and, as mentioned, sometimes trunk rust.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > bob and john 12/02/2015 at 10:03

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That’s the 3.5L six, not any variant of the rock-eating 3.0 five. The 3.5 is a variant of the 3.0 six, which had its own problems like a soot trap that cracked heads, but the 3.0 six I’ve got is still going strong at somewhere approaching 400,000 miles.

Your boy, BJR > Nibby 12/02/2015 at 10:05

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Nah I REALLY don't want a Benz. But the color and price on this one is right.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/02/2015 at 10:05

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>Rolland posts W123 thread

>Me (detecting approach of an Agrajag):

bob and john > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 10:06

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thank you sir.

Your boy, BJR > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 10:06

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How would I go about checking floorboard rust?

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 10:08

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Why use words when you can gif...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:09

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Stick your head under either side and look for missing or damaged mastic as a flag, would be my guess. These unfortunately don’t have the ground clearance to make it easy, but then again if the mastic is lifted or splitting, it’s probably not hard to spot.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 10:13

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>me on my way to post

Your boy, BJR > Agrajag 12/02/2015 at 10:13

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How do they run in the winter? How much time should I expect to spend starting it each morning?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/02/2015 at 10:17

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On a completely unrelated note, how easy would it be to con you into drawing an art deco style dragon?

Say, a dash of Art Deco griffin, plus Viking figurehead dragonishness in the head.

Agrajag > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:24

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They run fine as long as it’s running. Mine would start fine anywhere above 9 degrees or so. I didn’t have a functioning block heater because my cord was messed up, but as long as that works you should have zero issues. The glowplug has some magic sensor that will keep the light on the dash on as long as needed. Once that goes out you can fire it up.

In this video I think it was in the teens.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:25

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Depends if you have a block heater. If you have a block heater and can run a 120V cord outside a couple hours before starting (or leave it overnight, lawls) you can go out and start it instantly in the morning, and the coolant will already be hot enough to run the heater. Highly recommended anywhere cold.

Your boy, BJR > Agrajag 12/02/2015 at 10:27

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What's inspection like for a diesel in NJ?

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 10:34

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Pretty easy.

I’ve never made an attempt at art deco before, but I’ll give it a shot. Pen and ink or pencils?

Agrajag > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:35

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I’ve no idea. I’m in PA in a county whose emissions requirements are “no leaks”.

Agrajag > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:36

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Also, they are fucking champs in the snow.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:38

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Why are you selling your caddy ?

Agrajag > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 10:39

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The floor mats are the carpet. If you pull them up you’ll see the floor or what is remaining of it. Like Ramblin’ said and I discovered with mine, the undercoating is super thick and can easily disguise huge swaths of missing floor.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/02/2015 at 10:44

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Whatever is best for doing the necessary strong lines/simplification, so likely pen after getting worked out in pencil. The drawing itself isn’t that critical to the end product, because what I’m contemplating is making a carving based on it for making a hood ornament. Doesn’t really need to be the whole dragon, but head and wings are important. My best source on the *kind* of wings (modernized) that would look good on an Art Deco dragon would probably be the wings on the Naiad figurehead on on of the rostral columns in St. Petersburg :

Which, by the way, is a really weird thing. Dating from 1811, but has some of the Romantic period type stuff going on that fed into Art Deco much later on.

Franklins are the only cars I’m aware of to come from the factory (ever) with a dragon hood ornament, but the winged seahorse look isn’t quite “it”:

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 11:01

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Gotcha! I’ll see what I can come up with. Might be a few days though.

Your boy, BJR > Agrajag 12/02/2015 at 11:33

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What kind of mileage do they get

Agrajag > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 11:40

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Best I managed on a long trip was 35mpg, but usually between 25-30.

Your boy, BJR > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 11:53

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How would you convince a non car person that it's a good car?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 12:02

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Drugs, mostly. Actually, in seriousness, they’re really comfortable, get good mileage for their day, are reliable-ish up to insane miles, have lots of character, feel like you’re driving a solid chunk of German Hate-Iron (H8Fe), don’t really cost anything to keep going, and are just there when you need them. Also pretty classy - it’s kind of like driving the vehicle equivalent of somebody from an old money family fallen on hard times, compared to somebody just as poor who sits around eating Cheetos. Kind of an “I HAVE MY PRIDE, DAMMIT” going on.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/02/2015 at 21:38

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Where were you intending to place this on the hood? Is it gonna sit right on top like the w123 star, or do you want it to follow the contour of the hood? Something like this.

Also, I’ll probably do up a few different ideas so if it’d be better through e-mail let me know at agrajag4213@gmail.com. Otherwise we can keep it here.

Aaron Brown > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 21:57

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hmm

El Rivinado > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 22:35

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Sucks to here the Deville is getting sold, I always thought your car was pretty cool.

As for my suggestion? Well, if you’re looking at an Eldorado, make sure that the suspension on it hasn’t gone kaput or else you’re looking at an expensive repair. Suncore sells OEM parts for Eldo suspension, but it’s $3,400 and that’s before you pay to install it. You can find air shocks that are cheaper that should work just as good (the route I wanted to take before my dad forced coil springs on me without my consent.). For the Eldorado, I should also mention that if you plan on taking people anywhere, the backseat doesn’t have a whole lot of legroom, especially if you’re like me and are 6’3 and need the front seat all the way back.

Of course, there is the Northstar issue, but I got no doubt that you can solve that issue. If you still want a big Caddy, you could always get a B-Body Fleetwood, I’ve seen a couple on my SD craigslist for pretty cheap, and a RWD four door Cadillac is the way to go. Depending on how much they run, you could also look at the DTS as well if you want something like your Deville. A 92-97 or 98-94 Seville could work also, but I don’t know if your a fan of those or not.

Of course a Whale Caprice could always work if all else fails, at least it's not a panther.

Your boy, BJR > El Rivinado 12/02/2015 at 23:07

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1) Is the eldo suspension not CVRSS? Because that’s what I got now and it’s been perfectly reliable.

2) Northstars are as good and reliable a motor as any, and I used to be a caddy tech so I know them quite well.

3) no such thing as a B-Body Fleetwood, those were D-Bodies. Bigger than B-Bodies.

4) fuck Sevilles.

5) I have my eye on 2 different caprices.

El Rivinado > Your boy, BJR 12/02/2015 at 23:14

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The rear suspension is CVRSS, but if the car is at more than 70K it’ll start to sag and fail pretty quickly. Mine was shot when I bought it (bought at 77k on the Odometer to give a reference), and replacing it is not a cheap job. It’s not necessarily a guarantee that it will be in rough shape, but considering that Eldorado’s are often at higher mileages and are older than your 04 Deville is, the risk is certainly greater. Just food for thought.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/03/2015 at 09:32

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This is how the stock hood ornament works. No “contour-matching” going on whatsoever, and since the rib there in front divides the front edge...

(As seen in The Godfather Pt. II, because of course). The Capri (as seen there) had no hood ornament. (Actually, the crazy thing appears to be that even the L I N C O L N lettering appears to have been an option.) No chance of making an ornament that really matches the nose profile unless it were completely ahead of the contour, but it could be possible to put one on top of it, on those edges. I figure that whatever I make should be swappable with a ‘49-’51 Mercury/Lincoln Cosmopolitan ornament like this one:

The root cause for wanting a Viking dragon of any kind, besides ART DECO DRAGON, is this:

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Your boy, BJR 12/03/2015 at 13:51

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I found an ‘84 Benz 300D that is apparently a euro model with 220k on the clock for $1800.

Literally what even?

Your boy, BJR > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2015 at 14:00

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A grey import, Mercedes Benz 300D with 220,000 miles for sale for $1800.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Your boy, BJR 12/03/2015 at 14:02

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Haven’t you crushed enough quirky old European metal? Or have you suddenly decided you are literally Hitler, which is what you are if you drive a German car?

Your boy, BJR > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2015 at 14:19

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Nah I just need something cheap and reliable.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/06/2015 at 23:27

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I did some sketches and wanted your feedback.

This first head design I think I went to harsh with the straight lines and it ended up looking kind of Voltronish. The one at the bottom of this page I kind of like, but it would need to be reworked a bit to stay in line with an art deco design.

What did you have in mind for head adornments? I was going with some style of horns.

I haven’t really come up with a wing design I like yet. The scalloped wings seem out of place, and unaltered, clash with an art deco design. Any preference for wing position from a straight on view? Straight up or a V-pattern?

For the pose, did you want it laying down like your griffin example or in more of an action pose? Also along those lines, wing arms a-la Vermithrax Pejorative, or separate wings and arms? I feel with wing arms you run the risk of looking too much like that sea horse. Norse interpretations of dragons seem limited to the head and neck.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/07/2015 at 09:31

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On heads: I think one of the most distinctive Norse things is having a top arc to the head, and a rounded mouth cutout, something which the crouched dragon in #3 has going on, and the second head could line up with with a little less nose. Horns are good as long as they come off as tangent lines to the outer curve.

The nested-L thing with the wing (#4) is a good way to handle a more bat-like wing without lapsing into feathers - I’m convinced that the reason there are art deco griffins and not dragons has to do with a lack of wing consensus. Nobody coming up with something good for everybody to copy. What I was suggesting to be drawn from the column maenad was mostly the shape, cast, spacing, and the sort of top scroll thing it had going on with the top edge - for staying in keeping with the design themes I knew you were going to have to compromise on the wing webs, either by going segmented-triangle or by matching the edges to a master curve like the Franklin one. I’d say try flat edges on the web segments like either a Riemann sum or trapezoidal sum, either with or without ribs extending past...

... or arc all the segments to the same convex curve, like the Franklin “flying seahorse”.

I kind of assumed a “traditional” hexalimbic dragon with four legs, rather than a wyvern-type, so despite the fact a wyvern-type can be made into a more “natural” action pose, probably going to stick with that. I think the sphinx crouch is strongest in conveying art deco design, but is a little too lumpy/passive and detracts from the head. The other is good, but makes for a “scrawny” dragon, that doesn’t fit in the motif, and is a little too traditional. Possibly a happy medium exists - a partially crouched very harsh-lined “heavy” dragon with a big head. Alternately, one could try the sea-serpent route and have only the head, shoulders, and wings coming out of the hood. That might kick ass.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/09/2015 at 23:41

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Alternately, one could try the sea-serpent route and have only the head, shoulders, and wings coming out of the hood. That might kick ass.

I liked this idea. How is something like this for the general pose? The second one that is leaning back further I feel is more dynamic but may stray too far from viking influence.

I thought it would be fit the style to have a base that matches the raised section of the hood.

I did a few different wing designs as well.

I probably should’ve numbered these...

The head and claws/dragon hands/unguis(?) are still giving me all sorts of grief, but let me know your thoughts on these.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/10/2015 at 09:32

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The way I see it, the more we can incorporate the Lincoln “signature angle” the better. There is more or less an angle showing up everywhere on that car, and it’s the angle of this (coincidentally, I’m sure... not):

My instinct would have been to have more forward cast on the neck, but I’m pretty sure now that you’ve drawn it with backward cast that instinct’s wrong. Completely. So, somewhere closer to #2 than #1, “size of Viking influence” to be hanged on that point. As to wings, I think the spined/lionfish thing is probably right (upper right, second pic) - the block-edged stack-of-tanto-blades wings would look sick on the right kind of dragon, but I think they’re out of place here.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Agrajag 12/12/2015 at 13:12

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This is good OPPO.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/16/2015 at 22:31

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On the matter of feet. From a profile view I think it should match the “Lincoln angle”.

2 or 3 talons? Rear talon?

I’m leaning towards 3 in the front by themselves.

Of this second pic the circled one I thought was in the right direction.

Thought I was on to something here.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/17/2015 at 09:02

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I think the 3/largest toe in center approach is the right one. Probably with the crested knuckle, not without.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/30/2015 at 12:03

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Haven’t forgotten about this. Been busy with the holidays and my house falling apart.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 12/30/2015 at 12:12

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I saw the “my house is trying to kill me lol” post. This is in no possible way a priority thing, so do your thing. Basically, once I either get something from you to work from or hack up something into a three-way drawing, I can make a blob in AutoCAD and then cut sections out of it, which (sadly) I don’t have the ability to then take a STEP file of and 3d-print, but will mean I am in possession of a digital blob with all the correct dimensions and which can be measured from.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/30/2015 at 16:00

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Hopefully I’ll have some time this coming week. I think the head is the last design element and then I’ll do a front,side, rear drawing. Technical drawings aren’t really my thing so as far as dimensions/continuity between versions it will be a close approximation.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/07/2016 at 22:09

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I did a few different head sketches.

This is proving the most difficult part. I feel it needs to be a somewhat simple design to not only keep with an art deco aesthetic but translate well to something tiny like a hood ornament. I circled the one I like the most of these.

Looking at these all together now, I’m leaning towards the one I circled but with the nostril design of the one top right, first image.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

This image here served as inspiration for the last set of drawings.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Few things I wanted your input on.

Horns: Yay/nay? I’m thinking they’ll make it less Swan boat like. On the ones above I had them following the Lincoln angle.

Teeth: I think it should but don’t know well they’ll come out on a tiny statue.

Tongue: Same potential issue as teeth.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 01/08/2016 at 07:46

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I think minor teeth, if any. Any tongue needs just to be a Viking-ey point in the center of the mouth, probably. I think as long as the head has enough muzzle added to take it out of the realm of the super-simplified Viking arc-inside-an-arc, it’s pretty much suitable. I think your instincts are right in which head works best, because you don’t want something *too* lithe and serpenty as an ornament. The head needs to have a little meat to it.

I really like how this thread has continued to mutate and grow on Rolland’s post like a tumor. Do you think he’s noticed?

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/08/2016 at 09:15

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Haha. Probably not, but I hope he does find it randomly one day. Also, this has to be one of the great dragon discussions of our age.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/17/2016 at 18:11

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Did a preliminary sketch of the entire thing.

And with some different horn styles expertly added in Gimp. I suppose I need to get a tablet one of these days.

Let me know any changes you’d like to see.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 01/19/2016 at 08:58

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Other than making the body/etc. slightly more of a rectangular prism to be more Art Deco’ey and a little proportion tweaking, I don’t know if I’d really change anything. As the cartoon version, that kicks ass. I can probably work from it to plan out the actual thing.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2016 at 00:03

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I tried adding more of the “rectangular prism” aspect to it. This is about as finished of a look that I could manage, but if you’d like different angles, let me know.

I couldn’t find any of my drawing aids (french curves and whatnot) so unfortunately I had to free hand it leading to some squigley lines.

Here’s kind of a step by step with “hope for the best” perspective.

Agrajag > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/30/2016 at 23:43

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When ever you’re able to get this made let me know the cost. I’d be interested in getting one to put on the shelf. Also let me know if there is anything else you need from me or would like done for this.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Agrajag 02/01/2016 at 08:40

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Will do. I may try to AutoCAD something on it this week. Not that I have anything to generate a step file with or use one on, but having nailed down dimensions is good.